This debate has been beaten to death around the Seduction, Pickup and Game community over the past 5 years: Direct or Indirect- which is superior?
The debate has since been sparked once again over the past few days from various camps.
Those who aren’t privy to PUA politics, perhaps you’re just stumbling upon this dating genre via this article, I’d like to brief you on the debate as quickly as possible.
The Pickup Community is divided down a virtual line where on 1 side you have the proponents of Direct Game, and on the opposing side: Indirect-Game practitioners and coaches (such as myself).
Majority of the Pickup Artists (PUA’s) and game guys in the United Kingdom, fall under the “Direct-Game” wing of Pickup, such as my good friend and fellow-dating coach, Johnny Berba, who’s actually the most outspoken critic of Indirect Game I’ve ever come across.
Majority of the game guys within the United States, for the most part, adhere to the “Indirect” school of thought on Pickup (like myself).
Therefore, there’s an unspoken division between the 2 unofficial camps as far as which style of Game/Seduction they adhere to…or use most frequently.
Are you following?
Now the fundamental difference between the 2 styles of pickup/game is this:
Direct Game entails being direct from the get-go with women whom you approach. And by “Direct”, I mean letting the girl know that you fancy her DIRECTLY via compliments and other such direct-verbal expressions.
That is direct game in its rawest and most simple form.
Indirect Game as you would guess, entails the total opposite where you conceal your desires and liking for the girl by way of NOT complimenting her (directly) and NOT letting her know (directly) that you fancy her.
Hence both schools of Pickup/Game are the antithesis and the opposite of the other.
That is basically the slim-down version of what those 2 styles consist.
Which style of game you chose to work with, is all depended on your personality type (or should at least), and experience in the field [that is chatting up and meeting women].
If one desires to utilize both styles of game: then it’s all good! You can always utilize both as I would believe a great portion of us do.
As for myself; I am a staunch proponent and advocate of “INDIRECT GAME” [I never use direct game].
I believe that “Indirect” is KING and also the smartest way to interact with and meet women!
I am not for approaching random girls and striking up a conversation with “I thought you were beautiful”, as my ice-breaker [that would be a DIRECT opener by the way].
It isn’t in my current reality nor in the way in which I view women today, to approach them by making them feel high and mighty as they already are feeling.
I will outline some great reasons as to why going “Indirect” is the best way to go.
For starters, a woman, primarily a semi-hot one, struts around with guys virtually begging to scoop her precious poop off the ground and audition for a servant-boy position in her little world.
In fact, ugly girls also have a variety of guys chasing them on a daily basis. So even the 4’s and 5’s are buzzing from the sheer compliments they may get from a few brave men out there.
Why would I want to add myself to the shameful list of poop-scoopers and compliment-givers and guys who are inadvertently hoisting women further up the pedestal ladder?
It’s for this reason I don’t go DIRECT, meaning that I never strike up a convo with a woman via cheesy compliments by telling her that I had to come meet her because she was so beautiful or that I like her.
Dammit I almost spilled my coffee typing that! 😯 😡
Seriously speaking though; going “Direct” runs the risk of having the girl categorize you as just another male-fan who’d do anything just to get a whiff of her intestinal gases.
Not that it always sends this terrible message, but I would say 8 in 10 times, it does (when complimenting girls and expressing your fondness).
Now, to give a little slack to the Direct guys; their method does work, and we’ve all seen it in action via Youtube videos.
I don’t dispute that. But it becomes an uphill battle in my estimation.
By using Direct Game with a woman you’d approached, you now have to prove to the girl that you’re not some cheesy-stalkerish lunatic guy who’s never laid eyes on a woman before.
That is the risk you will run as a practitioner of Direct Game.
However if you’re adept and smart enough to rectify this and redeem yourself: then it will work out great for you as it probably does for advanced guys. But the average guy who’s just getting his feet wet in the game, should avoid Direct Game like a fucking plague!
I would admit though that to use direct game, requires more skills, more balls and more social awareness and advanced knowledge of social dynamics (including body language).
For a newbie to approach an HB10 [a 10 on the proverbial looks scale] in order to compliment her as an ice-breaker, would be utterly cringe-worthy to watch!
It’s for this reason why instinctively, most guys who get into the game start out by being practitioners of “Indirect Game” then eventually make the transition to Direct Game.
For guys like myself, I see no plausibility in going direct and complimenting women when they haven’t earned it nor deserved it!
Just being fucking beautiful isn’t enough to get a compliment out of me!
Beauty is so generic and subjective that it isn’t even worth a paragraph of discussion.
All in all, I still stick to my guns on this argument of which form of game is superior: INDIRECT is.
For reference sake, if you’re pondering how to approach and seduce women via Indirect Game, I’ll leave you with some basic tips and concepts which I use on a daily basis and have been using over the years:
1.) Strike up the conversation with anything besides a cheesy-generic compliment.
2.) Never indicate to the girl VERBALLY that you like her or are into her. If you do verbalize it: make it playful, goofy and an obvious exaggeration [do NOT be sentimental or heart-felt about it].
3.) Let your body language and non-verbal show her that you like and want her. Basically- “act” as though you like her, but don’t tell her that you like her [this’ indirect game].
4.) Act as though you’re not that interested in her via NEGS and smart-ass semi-sarcastic comments. This is called False-Disqualifying tactics.
Those are the 4 tenets of “Indirect Game”.
Your ice-breakers/openers should NOT be:
“Hi, I just seen you from over there and thought you were really beautiful and had to come meet you”.
Instead, your ice-breaker should be:
“Hey, can you give me directions to Jimmy’s cafe? I heard it was somewhere around here”.
Whether she knows the directions or not, or whether Jimmy’s cafe even exists [doesn’t have to]: it doesn’t fucking matter!
Whatever she says to you in response to your indirect opener, you simply routine stack as we’d say in pickup. That is, you change the subject and move onto another topic.
Lemme illustrate a sequence here:
Me: “Hey do you know where Jimmy’s cafe is”?
Girl: “No. Never heard of it”.
Me: “Shit! I need a cup of coffee! Oh BTW, can you recommend me a good pizza spot”?
Girl: “I think there’s one 3 blocs that way”.
Me: “If I decide to take your recommendation and buy a pizza from that imaginary place that’s 3 blocs that way, and the pizza turns out to be horribly; I’m gonna sue you for bad recommendation”. 😆
That is an Indirect Opener in conjunction with Indirect Game, where absolutely nothing is conveyed to the girl as far as you liking here, neither are you hitting on her.
Even if you do like her, which is the reason you’d approached her in the first place (and she may sense this), but you never want to let her know this at such an early stage in the game (unless playfully)!
That is the total opposite of Direct Game and Direct Openers, where you verbalize from the get-go that you like the girl and are attracted to her and want to get to know her, date her and so forth.
I showcased Indirect Game and opener in 1 of my earliest hidden-cam videos from over 2 years ago. I was walking by a college campus here on island (a Brooklyn CUNY College offshore campus) and approached a student whom I’d bumped into the day before, so I decided to break the ice officially with an Indirect Opener based on us glancing each other a day prior.
That was Indirect Game to the fullest being that I never complimented her on looks, beauty, nor did I verbalize that I liked her (although I did want to fuck her).
For another breakdown of Direct vs Indirect Game, this video from my buddy, Justin Wayne of NYC, is a great source of clarification as he field tests both styles. BTW, Justin is also a strong proponent of Indirect Game.
On a more in-your face note, Pickup coach, Alex Attitude of Australia, explains why Direct Game is the worst idea during Day Game [that is meeting women during daylight hours].
To hammer home the effectiveness of Indirect game, an old video came to mind from my Israeli buddy, Speer, as he opened a girl at a bar by asking her: “Do you speak English”? A great Indirect Opener.
To be fair and balanced here, this is a Direct-Game opener and Pickup from my good buddy, Steve Jabba of London. You’ll get a perfect idea of what it is (direct game to the fullest).
Another video breakdown by my buddy, Tom Torrero, trying to make a case for Direct Game and when and where he feels it’s best to use it.
Direct opener in a pick-up attempt by my amigo, PUA Mac Rey, of South Carolina. He opens direct but pretty much deviates into Indirect strategy I would say.
Now I’m quite sure my friends from the U.K. can make a great case as to why Direct game is better and Indirect sucks [I don’t dispute this case can be made].
So…take your pick!
Which appeals more to you: Direct Game or Indirect Game?
If you currently “game” and are used to chatting up women, how do you open the lines of communication with strangers: Direct (compliments) or Indirect (asking for directions, etc.)?
Direct-Day Game response to RooshV by the 3 Bromigos.
To familiarize yourself with the seduction-community jargon, check out the acronym and term list: PUA acronym and term list.